> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
Splendid Little Wars
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Chairman Roberto –

I enjoy reading about the nooks and crannies of history. I was wondering if anyone could recommend
any source describing China’s skirmishes with India and Vietnam. I know any sources here in China
would be hard to find…have there been any books written on the subject? I know absolutely
nothing about why China got into it with India and Vietnam…can anyone enlighten me?

thanx!

the Chairman

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roddy –

The best resource I’ve found on the Sino-Vietnamese war is here
http://www.china-defense.com/history…no-vn_1-1.html
although I’ve hardly done a comprehensive review of all available information.

The same site doesn’t have anything (that I could see at first glance) on India – but it does have
an interesting article about American efforts to decide if pictures in Chinese military journals
of heavy artillery bolted to barges were a genuine part of a planned cross-straits trip, or just a
bit of a bluff.

Roddy
ADDED: I should mention that I’ve sometimes been a little dubious about that site I link to above
- there is no indication that I can see of who it is funded / run by, and it’s been suggested to
me that it might simply be ‘Pentagon Progaganda’. I think this is a little unlikely, but maybe
worth bearing in mind.

holyman –

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chairman Roberto

I enjoy reading about the nooks and crannies of history. I was wondering if anyone could recommend
any source describing China’s skirmishes with India and Vietnam. I know any sources here in China
would be hard to find…have there been any books written on the subject? I know absolutely
nothing about why China got into it with India and Vietnam…can anyone enlighten me?

thanx!

the Chairman

its not about easy or hard to find, u can find a lot but its mostly one sided affair.

Quest –

most chinese dont even know or care about the skirmish with india, but i think the indians took it
quite seriously. so i think u would find more information about it on indian websites. and the
vietnam skirmish… all i know is that we tried not to attack their civilians, but their women and
children killed more of our soldiers than their men did.

Anonymous –

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest

and the vietnam skirmish… all i know is that we tried not to attack their civilians, but their
women and children killed more of our soldiers than their men did.

Vietnamese women and children also fought in the Veitnam War against the U.S.

Chairman Roberto –

Roddy–Thanx for the website…it was a fascinating read, but still very general. I am wondering
about the actual combat conditions, or any stories of that campaign.

Quest–It is a curious and idiomatic part of the verbal English to refer to one’s home army as
“we.” I do it myself, unconciously, from time to time. “We attacked the Germans at Normandy.” “We
suffered heavy losses at Tet.” etc etc. But now, I try to make an effort not to use that pronoun,
for various reasons:

Number one, I’m not a soldier, nor ever have been, and I haven’t the slightest idea of what real
combat is like. I never even fired a gun. So, I feel that it’s innappropriate for me to say “we”
when talking about the manuevers of the U.S. military, for the simple fact that I never took part.

Number two, I often have strong disagreements about what the U.S. government does with its
military. When I say “we” about any military campaign, it subtly implies that I agree with what my
government is doing. “We went into Iraq and took Baghdad” sounds like I’m with the U.S. government
all the way. Given the poor reputation of the U.S. govt abroad, and my personal distaste of George
W., I like to distance myself from both. So, I avoid the “we” pronoun.

As far as women and children killing PLA soldiers, well…I’d like to think that if any foreign
soldiers were invading my land, I’d try to kill a few myself, given the chance. Which is precisely
happened in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam, and what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But unfortunately, “we” never learn, do “we”?

Sorry to go off on a tangent…now I’m way off topic! Whoops!

I’ll keep looking around for sources for the Great Sino-Vietnamese War and Great Sino-Indian War.
Thank you!

the Chairman

roddy –

Here’s a source for the Sino-Indian War
http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/ink…achina1962.htm
Roddy

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  > Chinese Culture > Food
Anything but the food…..
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TSkillet –

Quote:

The thing is, everyplace on earth has a lot of variety, if you look for it, and a lot of nice stuff

But that’s just it. In China, you don’t have to look.

Quote:

But in some countries, a relatively cheap meal is usually well cooked and wholesome. I don’t think
that’s always the case in China.

I don’t think this is the case at all – what’s your criteria for well cooked and wholesome? This
is just your opinion of what is well cooked and wholesome.

I do think it’s awful silly to slag off an entire country’s cuisine, especially one of the three
great culinary cultures in the world (france and italy being the other two)[/i][/quote]

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xiaozhu –

In Anshan I went to a small cheap restaurant and had pancakes with meat and veg. For the four of
us it was 24 yuan and it was very tasty. Cheap and delicious! So I didn’t even try to find nice
places to eat and found gems everywhere I went. Which means I think the opposite of your
generalisation! I think China is too big a country to have generalisations made about it.

wushijiao –

I know where woodcutter is coming from. When I first came to China I was a vegan. And the habit of
putting small bits of meat or meat sauce in almost evrything really pissed me off. Eventually I
came back to the side of the meat eaters. Likewise, if you grew up in a Western household that ate
a lot of bread, steamed vegtables, dairy, or baked things, Chinese food might all seem to blend
together. As far as I know, no Chinese cuisine has taken advantage of cheeses or creams like the
Italians or French.

Also the art of combing food with matching wines doesn’t exist in China. Baijiu and beer both go
well with everything, but they don’t really compliment and enhance the foods they go with.

Also, even though I consider China to have the best food of any country in the world, i think
sometimes Chinese people are a bit boastful about Chinese food, usually because they’re comparing
it with McDonald’s and KFC. Well, if I take a four-course Italian meal with beautiful wines that
compliment the foods for an almost heavenly experience, then compare that to fangbianmian, who
will win then?

Anyway, the key, as TSkillet pointed out, is variety. Especially if you are sick of the simple
oily something with rice- type meals, try Xinjiang and Hunan. Xinjiang because it has different
spices from other Chinese food, and different textures. And Hunan because it is more pepper based,
and less sauce based, I think.

shibo77 –

Yea… give me my fangbianmian anyday…

-Shibo

wushijiao –

well….maybe I’d that mini-shrimp fangbianmian

Yau –

wushijiao

Quote:

As far as I know, no Chinese cuisine has taken advantage of cheeses or creams like the Italians or
French.

Also the art of combing food with matching wines doesn’t exist in China. Baijiu and beer both go
well with everything, but they don’t really compliment and enhance the foods they go with.

haha, you got a point but just not accruate. While cheese is actually a western food (including
xinjiang) , it seldom appears in a chinese menu. When it’s been getting more popular in the last
100 years, cantonese has used it to make a lobster, with wine and milk to make a sauce. There’s
some more cuisines that take the advantage of cheeses.

For the art of wine, I think chinese put much more effort on matching food with tea and side-dish,
rather than wine. However, in Hang Zhou, wine is used to complement with some kind of cuisine,
like the Binding Crab with Hua-Diao wine.

well, it’s true that chinese is always proud of the variety in their food, but i don’t think they
do anything to refute an italian food or french food.
However, “western” in china may usually refer to american and (may be )british, so when they say
“western food is terrible”, you can assume that he only makes fire on north american and british
food.

geraldc –

Re things like cream and cheese, apparently the majority of Chinese become lactose intolerant when
they reach adulthood. So it makes sense not use ingredients that cause stomach problems. You
should see the fun I have if I have more than one glass of milk.

Also there’s the “go bright red when drinking” problem, that may explain why some of us choose not
to drink with meals. Apparently there’s some genetic reason behind it too.

Yau –

Quote:

Apparently there’s some genetic reason behind it too.

it’s funny claim, though i’m always good with cheese, sichuan oily hot pot or milk. I’m a natural
born food gourmet and contribute my life to eat. Well, i commit to it, so I eat every day from my
born.

sunyata –

as some say, don’t argue about tastes…

personally, I don’t see Italian cuisine as something extravagant and wonderful…italian dishes
are all essentially leftovers mixed with some form of dough (one of the cheapest food products) -
pasta, pizza, you name it – it’s all the same. The basics of italian cooking are as such:

1. Make some dough. If you made too much – don’t worry, you can always make pasta out of it later.
2. Slice up the sausages that the dogs didn’t finish and add them to your creation.
3. Add some spoiled milk (aka “fresh ricotta cheese”) if you want to be fancy
4) Cook it and try it. If it still doesn’t taste quite right, you must have fogotten to add the
rotten tomatoes from yesterday’s salad…

gao_bo_han –

Sunyata, were you trying to be funny? It’s hard to tell with you.

I was lucky enough to go to Italy several years ago, and experienced for the first time in my life
real cuisine. I even had a 6 course meal (yes, with the wines and all). I don’t know if I would
quite go as far to say “uplifting”, but damn it was good. Of course I’m into Chinese food too, and
Mexican. I like to eat, what can I say? But French food…I don’t really get behind it at all

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  > Chinese Culture > Society
Can foreigners ever understand Chinese culture?
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Page 1 of 7 1 23 > »

Yang Rui –

There seems to be a consensus among many of my Chinese friends that non-Chinese people will never
understand Chinese culture. If i express a view that is different to the generally held view in
China, i am often patronisingly told that i don’t understand because i’m a foreigner.

There’s certainly a lot i don’t know or understand about China, but does not being Chinese mean i
can never understand?

Is this only a mainland view, or a general Chinese view?

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xuechengfeng –

I’d hate to hear the people who hold these beliefs tell this to those non-Chinese who dedicate
their lives to studying the culture!

geek_frappa –

did your friends take their medication today?

galitonwu –

Lots of Chinese have this view.
But, there is not this view except Chinese.

39degN –

Quote:

There’s certainly a lot i don’t know or understand about China, but does not being Chinese mean i
can never understand?

certainly not true, there are so many lao wai even more chinese than chinese.

but for sure becuase of the stereotype or somthing, most ppl think so (not only chinese).

JoH –

My chinese teacher keeps complaining that young chinese people don’t understand chinese culture
anymore. ; )

I suppose it depends on what you mean by ‘understanding chinese culture’. I’m not too sure what it
would mean to say that someone ‘understands english culture’ either to be honest!

If you are discussing chinese history, medicine or traditional philosophies then there’s no reason
why a foreigner who has studied those fields shouldn’t have as good an understanding of them as
many chinese people. Or why a foreigner who has lived and worked in china for years shouldn’t
understand chinese business culture as well as a chinese person with similar experience. On the
other hand, there are probably some aspects of culture that you do miss out on simply by not
growing up in that country.

geek_frappa –

chinese culture is nice, but old people teach rules.
they should instead teach the virtues and traditions.

old people are giving up on their youth.
old people don’t know that they are also giving up on their society.

i am too young to lecture old people.
so i will be quiet now…

nnt –

Quote:

There seems to be a consensus among many of my Chinese friends that non-Chinese people will never
understand Chinese culture

This is a very common international stereotype.

You can replace “Chinese” by any other country/culture word, and you’ll hear it everywhere. And
you’ll know it’s false everywhere.

geek_frappa –

ya, that’s why we have wars. and wars… and wars…

Green Pea –

Quote:

There seems to be a consensus among many of my Chinese friends that non-Chinese people will never
understand Chinese culture. If i express a view that is different to the generally held view in
China, i am often patronisingly told that i don’t understand because i’m a foreigner.

It is really not that difficult. Let’s use your experience to understand Chinese culture…

Rule 1: Maintain consensus.
Rule 2: If someone disagrees and thereby breaks consensus, then be patronising. If they continue
to disagree, go to Rule 3. The fear of being patronised will keep Rule 1 in check.
Rule 3: If being patronising doesn’t work, then ostracise. (You are a foreigner and can’t
understand us.) The fear of being ostracised will keep Rule 1 in check.

Quote:

chinese culture is nice, but old people teach rules.

Quote:

i am too young to lecture old people

This is another one:
Rule 1: Learn the rules.
Rule 2: If you are old, teach rules.
Rule 3: If you are young, get taught the rules.

That’s about all you need to know.

Quote:

You can replace “Chinese” by any other country/culture word, and you’ll hear it everywhere. And
you’ll know it’s false everywhere.

I agree. Just plop in any country, people, group, corporation, sports team, etc. into a little
subroutine, and it usually works.

Quote:

ya, that’s why we have wars. and wars… and wars…

No kidding. Just simply because their subroutines have different names, colours on their flags,
and believe their “culture” is special.

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